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Trade Skills :: Bulk Order Deeds

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Trade Window | Maker’s Marks | Crafting System | Bulk Order Deeds

Evocare – Publish 15 has introduced some code that scales your BOD offer considerably by your blacksmithing skill. We’re seeing too many instances of “mule” 70-skill blacksmiths created for the sole purpose of getting lots of BODs. We really don’t want to encourage the mass-creation of mule characters, so you’ll now have a very difficult time getting good colored armor deeds using smiths that don’t have high blacksmithing skill. However, grandmaster smiths still have just as good a chance to get rewards as they did before publish 15.
Trade Skills :: Bulk Order Deeds Time-Limits
Real SkillTime DelayBulk Order type
50.0-one hourSmall Orders, iron only, no exceptional
50.1 – 69.9two hoursSmall Orders, iron only, no exceptional
70.0+six hoursSmall & Large Orders, coloured, exceptional

Trade Skills :: Bulk Order Deeds Bulk Order Deeds [301101]
A large bulk order request
Bulk Orders
Bulk orders will be a new feature for crafters, and will be randomly offered by NPC craftspeople to players who sell goods, depending on their skill in the respective craft, and how often the player does business with the NPC.

The bulk order feature is a new addition, and will be implemented only for blacksmiths at this time, allowing us a chance to evaluate and improve the system before expanding it to include more of the crafts.

Players with a sufficient skill in blacksmithy will have a chance to recieve bulk order requests from NPC Armorers and Blacksmiths when they sell goods to those NPCs.

When offered, the bulk order is in the form of a grey deed. Double-clicking this deed brings up the details of the order, such as the item name, amount to make, quality of the item requested, and the ore type.

To complete a regular order, the player can use the “combine” button on the deed to combine the crafted items with the deed until the amount of items the deed requests has been reached. Once the correct amount of items has been created and combined with the deed, the deed can then be dropped on the NPC for a reward.

Small Orders
Small orders, the only ones given to players with less than 70 skill, will request items that will allow the player to gain skill.

Large Orders
Large bulk orders will be extremely difficult to fill, in that each large bulk order may consist of filling and combining several smaller bulk orders. For instance, a large bulk order for blacksmiths may require 20 full sets of armor to be made. The player must obtain several smaller bulk orders, each requiring 20 pieces of an individual piece of armor. These smaller orders for the individual pieces must be completed, and combined into the large bulk order before the large bulk deed can be returned to the NPC for a reward. The smaller orders must be for the same number, quality, and ore type as the original large bulk order. Large bulk orders offer higher rewards, and are only offered to blacksmiths with 70 blacksmithy skill or higher.

All items craftable by blacksmiths can be requested by a blacksmith’s bulk order. The quality, quantity, and ore type are chosen at random. The quality is limited to normal or exceptional. The quantity is limited to 10, 15, or 20. The ore types are iron, dull copper, shadow, copper, bronze, golden, agapite, verite, and valorite.

Rewards
The rewards are threefold. The first reward is gold. A check will be given to the person fulfilling the order if the amount is equal to or above 5000 gold. The second reward is a special item not available currently in the game, chosen based on the difficulty of the order. The third reward is an amount of fame, which is based on the difficulty of the deed.

The reward items are not listed here, in order to allow blacksmiths to discover for themselves what rewards will be available.

Examples
The easiest bulk order to complete would be an order for 10 buckler shields of normal quality and made with iron ingots. The reward would be a moderate amount of fame, some gold, and a special item.

The hardest bulk order to complete would be a large bulk order for 20 suits of platemail (all 6 pieces) of exceptional quality made with valorite. The player would need to have a large bulk order deed, as well as six small bulk order deeds, each for the same number, quality, and ore type, and each for a different piece of the full armor set. These six small orders (each for 20 of a particular armor piece, of exceptional quality, and made from valorite ingots) would need to be combined into the deed. The reward would be an enormous amount of fame, a bank check for a large sum of gold, and a magical item.

Trade Skills :: Bulk Order Deeds Dev Postings [Last Updated 180102]
Uncredited postings are by Hanse.
General
[110402] Selling “better” items to NPCs do not get you better bulk order deeds.
[150202] We decided not to give the gloves charges, based on player feedback.
[150202] Well, once you get an item like that, you usually will get a glut of them and not need the piles of items you have (see: mining gloves… :).

We’re making the rewards usuable and have charges, instead.

As for predicting the value of colored ingots versus reward after completing a bulk order deed, we can’t. The prices of colored ingots are player generated (player economy). If you believe the value of a deed is not up to snuff, then factor in the worth of the item and fame reward as the balance of the total reward. If you believe that those rewards are not worth it, then you have the option of selling/trading the deed to someone that does value it. :)

As for Siege Perilous, I’m glad Mierin and Freja brought that topic up. I have a solution for the issue and will add it to publish 16. Thanks for reminding me… I’m not up-to-date on what changes are on Siege Perilous (had to ask Adrick about the issue). :)

…and yes, I do have the sideways smiley face disease… :)
[140202] Due to the responses we have been getting for weapon bulk orders, here’s the list of tentative categories of weapon large bulk orders. These bulk orders will have new rewards that are interesting and can be used up. Polearms will not have as high of a point value as the rest of the categories due to only having two items in it. The rewards are still being worked on.
[140202] The small reward point range is changing to accomodate the new rewards. You could fill a dull copper exceptional shield order and get one of the new rewards.
[140202] There’s also the issue of a fluctuating player economy for colored ingots. We do not set a price on those ingots. If we attempted to set a price, the price would be arbitrary and eventually outdated.

As far as differences in rewards between exceptional and normal, the fame reward is different. The gold reward between the two is not.
[140202] We’re not planning for shield and helmet large bulk orders. They can be colored and you can get low-end runic hammers with them, unlike weapon deeds.
[140202] I should have posted this with the information about the weapon large bulk orders.

Large bulk order rarity: Right now, the system uses a 1 in 3 chance to get a large bulk order for blacksmithy (ringmail, chainmail, and platemail).

With the new system, it will not become a 1 in 8 chance to get the large bulk order you want. The chances will be split as follows:

1 in 4 chance… ringmail, chainmail, platemail, and weapon large bulk order.

Then, inside the weapon category it has a 1 in 5 chance to get the deed you want. The categories being axes, swords, maces, fencing, and polearm.

This does reduce the chance for armor deeds from 33% to 25%, but it’s not as harsh as 12.5% across the board. Although, multiplied together, the percentage chance of getting the large bulk order for a specific weapon deed is 5% (25% and then 20% of that chance). BUT… weapons are not colored… so they’re easier to fill. :)

Color rarity: Since only armor deeds can be colored, the small bulk orders have a boost in chance of being colored (percentage is still being evaluated) if you’re a GM.

All of the above is valid for publish 16, at the moment. We may tweak the system as it goes through testing, of course.
[130202] FYI :: Info from Hanse and Evocare on BODs –
The Bulk Order Deed system has grown in popularity since its inception in November of last year. With such a great start, many are curious as to what the future might hold for BODs. Lead Designer Evocare stopped by the Deed Finder website and talked a little about the tentative plans regarding improvements to the system. Some of the items the Development team hopes to address are: “I just wanted to make it clear that we do not believe the BOD system is ‘good enough’ as-is, and concur with the clear feedback that there are things we can do to help it meet its potential.” – Evocare

On the UO.com front, Designer Hanse took the time to address a few concerns about BODs on the Development forum.

Among the answers given were explanations for some of the current features…

“Fame was lowered because most blacksmiths are not warrior/mages. They very rarely die and there isn’t an outlet for your blacksmith to lose fame. We lowered the reward to be more in line with the difficulty of the deed. You still get an enormous amount of fame for large bulk orders that are high-end ore colors.”

“The rewards are very powerful, so the randomness and low percentages help balance that.”

“Spread out over 230000 players (which we must take into account), your chances [of getting a large BOD] may seem close to zero, but they are not zero. That’s why the system leans heavily on trading. We did not want powerful runic hammers in the hands of every player.”

…as well as a peek into what might lay ahead for Blacksmithing BODs:

“Mining gloves may be changed to use charges like the shovels and pickaxes. The amount of charges is going to be in-line with the future ancient hammers. This would be published at the same time ancient hammers get their boost.”

Of course, all these are tentative plans, and could very easily be modified or removed based on results from playtesting and further analysis. Thanks to Evocare and Hanse for the great information!
[110202] Ancient hammers are getting a boost in charges and another change should increase their value. Legacy ancient hammers will be “upgraded” along with this change in a future publish.

Mining gloves may be changed to use charges like the shovels and pickaxes. The amount of charges are going to be in-line with the future ancient hammers. This would be published at the same time ancient hammers get their boost.

Only one NPC guild remains in the game now (thieves guild). All the other guilds were removed with the last publish. They were never implemented fully and we did not have any designs to extend them.

Fame was lowered because most blacksmiths are not warrior/mages. They very rarely die and there isn’t an outlet for your blacksmith to lose fame.
[180102] You don’t need mining to get higher deeds. It sounds like a wicked rumor to get folks to spend extra skill points… :)

We’ve tested bulk order deed generation (as well as many of the designers participating in the BOD system… informal testing) and there are not issues with its distribution. The rumors that specific skill amounts give better offerings of orders (70 and above) are not true, either.
[180102] Both points are good points and are considered when new designs are made. The scenario team had this issue with the random orc masks being too low of a percentage. They raised the percentage and now the orc masks are common, but many folks were upset that they were devaluated.

The trade-off would be to make the goal outrageously hard for the high-end hammers and lower the percentages. It would be frustrating again, but in a different manner (an example… require 10000 suits of exceptional valorite plate to be able to get a valorite hammer).

Anyone can get lucky, but not everyone has the time to perform extremely long tasks (casual gamers) that would be needed to keep the items rare as a trade-off. :)
[050102] Evocare –
Some notes on Pub 15 and BODs in general…

1. Last I checked, the ASHs are several times more durable then normal smithing hammers. However, I do believe that they’re still in need of a serious improvement in durability. When we get a chance to do this, we’ll make a concerted effort to make the fix retroactive to current ASHs (unfortunately I can’t guarantee it).

2. The system does not factor in how many “good” BODs have been issued for that day/week/month/year or any increment of time. It keeps no memory of past events (the only record of what deeds have been issued is a relatively simple text logging procedure for our metrics gathering purposes only, and has no code effects whatsoever). There are other reasons you’re likely seeing more weapon BODs now (see #3 below).

3. Publish 15 has introduced some code that scales your BOD offer considerably by your blacksmithing skill. We’re seeing too many instances of “mule” 70-skill blacksmiths created for the sole purpose of getting lots of BODs. We really don’t want to encourage the mass-creation of mule characters, so you’ll now have a very difficult time getting good colored armor deeds using smiths that don’t have high blacksmithing skill. However, grandmaster smiths still have just as good a chance to get rewards as they did before publish 15.

4. You still get fame for doing BODs (the better the BOD, the more fame you get), but the fame messages (ie: “you gained a good amount of fame”) managed to break when published. The fame messages will return in an upcoming publish. =[

5. We’ll continue to monitor the system very closely, and refine it as needed. Keep in mind that the system intentionally makes it very very difficult to get the really good BODs, since it’s critical for us to err on the side of caution (we’d much rather it be too hard at first then too easy). If it proves too difficult to get medium to high-end rewards, we’ll definitely consider making it easier once we’re confident that the system is behaving as designed, predictably, and without significant loopholes. =]
[040102] Evocare –
Just a quick question – is it intended that the reward BODs give (amount of gold & item value) is much less than the value of the items in the BOD? I mean, we’re not even getting the worth of our ingots back. :(
To a degree, yes. First, we don’t want the BODs to undermine the value of selling finished goods to other players. Second, there just isn’t any way for us to ensure that the BOD gold rewards dynamically stay in-line with whatever the current market value of an ingot is. However, the gold itself is only part of the reward… there is always the fame, and the potential (on medium to high-end BODs) for fantastic rewards that can’t be obtained any other way.
[020102] Mining is not connected to the bulk order deeds and their color selection (if you have sufficient skill to get a colored deed – 70 and up).

If you’re below 70 skill, your skill does restrict the deed you get. The skill restriction is -10 to +10 around your current skill for items it chooses for you to make. This allows the deed to be focused for skill gains on your character.

IE at 49.9 skill (39.9 to 59.9 skill requirement items):
41.9 – Ringmail Sleeves
44.4 – Maul
44.4 – Ringmail Leggings
46.9 – Ringmail Tunic
49.3 – Cutlass
49.3 – Heater Shield
49.3 – Viking Sword
53.0 – Large Battle Axe
53.0 – Longsword
53.0 – War Mace
54.3 – Double Axe
55.5 – Battle Axe
56.7 – Bardiche
56.7 – Scimitar
58.0 – Two Handed Axe
59.2 – Axe
59.2 – Executioner’s Axe
59.2 – Hammer Pick
59.2 – War Hammer

Chainmail Coif is too low (39.5) and Platemail pieces are too high (in the 80’s and 90’s).
[191201] Large Bulk Order Deeds are definitely not 1 to 1. There is a less than 20% chance to get one.

We profiled the system with millions of bulk deed generations. It takes many many deeds to see the average percentages in semi-accurate numbers. Until then, your perception of the system will seem skewed. :)

Here’s the flow of choices when the system generates an offer for a person to accept… (spoiler info)
  1. Chooses LBOD or SBOD (SBOD’s have a greater than 80% chance).
  2. Chooses between 3 quantities (10, 15, 20). Each is a third of a chance (ie: one is not weighted over the other).
  3. Chooses an item randomly from a list of 49 weapons and armor (each item has a slightly better percentage than 2% to be chosen).
  4. Chooses Exceptional or Normal quality. (GM smiths get a 10% bonus to this choice.)
  5. Checks if item is huable and flips a coin between whether it is iron or not.
  6. If the item is not iron at this point, then it rolls up the hue. Valorite is very low (lower than your chances of fishing up an SOS bottle per cast).
[011001] Glad you like the system so far. We’re going to tweak the percentages as we’ve had a good deal of feedback on the issue.

Folks were getting many large orders vs small orders at a high skill. This has been tweaked to lower the percentage of large orders.

9 ore types × 2 quality levels (Exceptional vs Normal) × 3 request amounts (10, 15, 20) × 3 sets = 162 different large orders.

Plate suits have 6 pieces (gorget, helm, chest, legs, arms and hands), not 5. :)
[011001] The timer is placed on you if you accept or decline the offer. This is to avoid people retrying over and over for the supreme deed and foster trading of the deeds between blacksmiths. :)
[250901] I know you have to sell to an npc and if you are a regular seller he or she gives you a bulk order for an item . But can you only get one at a time or can you go to different npc’s and get another one? or can you only have one at a time and then get other’s from other players???
You can get one at a time during a time period. This time period is independent of NPC shopkeepers.

Are you saying these special items we get are going to be something not already availiable or just other rare items? And if so is it only possible to get these items via bulk order deeds??
The rewards are artwork hued differently with new powers or a different description to show off your blacksmithing skills.

Oh and do you plan on implementing these bulk order deeds to say scribing or alchemy.. since I’m assuming you did say tailoring and other’s skills…
Sannio got this one. :) [Sannio – Initially, it will only be blacksmithing. It may be possible to introduce similar systems much later on for other skills, but that’s not something we plan on implementing right now. Before we can even think about expanding the concept to other skills, we’ll need to keep an eye on how the blacksmithing bulk orders go, and decide what adjustments might be made with it first.]

would it be possible to have special items given only obtainable to the certain skill like maybe a Gm smith receiving a gold hammer to hold and only gm smiths being able to use it or rather hold it in hand.
There are limitations on how you can use some items and some do not have limitations. IE: Some of the items can be worn by a blacksmith and have a different description than normal, but can be worn by anyone.
[240901] Below 70 skill, blacksmiths can be offered bulk deeds of items that would give them skill gains. This allows them to be focused on helping out the blacksmith, breaking up monotony, and getting a reward for their toils. The small bulk deeds do not give out any of the high-end rewards. They do not request exceptional or hued items.

The deeds of 70 skill and above are random and do not focus on skill gain. They are for the veteran players (although, it does not focus on only high-end rewards). There is a chance for exceptional quality, specific ore type, and either a small deed or large deed type. The more difficult orders give out better rewards.

So, the bulk order deeds are for all blacksmiths.
[190901] I am an GM Smith/Miner. If I get an offer from a vendor what kind is it going to be. Can I choose from different offers ?
You cannot choose what kind of offer you get. It is random, although it’s more limited the lower the skill value you have below 70.

How likely is it to get an exceptional valorite plate offer? <- is this offer harder to get ? Do I have better chances to get a valorite offer if I sell MANY items ?
This is random. You do not get a better chance if you sell more items.

If I refuse an offer will I also suffer the long waiting period until I get a new offer ? Or do I get a new offer right away ?
If you refuse the deed, you have lost the opportunity for that deed. We did not want players refusing deeds in the hopes of getting another deed. It will give you the same delay as if you chose it. This means that you’ll need to get deeds from other blacksmiths.
[190901] The hardest offer would be Exceptional/Plate/Valorite, right? What if a smith with NO mining skill goes to a NPC blacksmith? Is he going to recieve a valorite offer regardless of his mining skill, so that the system only checks the smithing skill?
No, it would offer you an order that you are capable of making.

If I recieve or refuse an offer I get a delay, right? Is that delay “tagged” to the specific NPC I got the offer from? Would I be able to recieve an offer from a different NPC (maybe different subservers ?) right away? Or is the delay “worldwide” ?
Nope, it tags your character. You wouldn’t get an offer from another shopkeeper.

Could I buy an offer from one NPC and then sell it to a different NPC? Or would I have to stick with the one that offered me the offer?
You cannot buy orders deeds off shopkeepers.
[190901] Time between getting offered a deed and having the chance to receive another one?
Six hours if you’re over 70 skill (not playtime, realtime).
[170901] Any combination can be requested.

Ie (each line is a different deed):
10 Ringmail arms
10 Exceptional Ringmail arms
10 Ringmail arms of dull copper
10 Exceptional Ringmail arms of dull copper

Reward would be equal to half its vendor’s value in gold for non-large bulk deeds, a bit of fame, and an item.

Gold rewards below 5000 gold is a pile of gold and not a check.

Items cannot be removed individually from a deed, once they have been combined with it (technical reason: stacking issue…items lose their properties…the deed does not store each object in it).
[170901] Yes, that’s basically how the NPC’s request items through the deeds. The challenge is to gain skill in the beginning of your smithy career. The repetition is what is meant to be broken up, at that point. Many folks don’t have that many ties in the game yet (when you’re new to the world). This allows a mini-game and a direction for your blacksmith to follow as a young player.

The higher skill smiths tend to have developed friends that they help out, craft for, repair items, etc. Their community involvement with the system is the swapping of deeds. The completion of the deeds might seem a challege…

If you’re wondering if swapping deeds will actually become a dynamic, then you need to consider the magnitude of how many order combinations there are.

Small order deeds possible: Over 2500 varying deeds
Large order deeds possible: Over 150 varying deeds

This is all pending QA, of course.
[170901] Ack, good point. The functionality is internal and does not look at the vendor’s stock for calculation of the price. It’s the absolute value and not the calculated value of the NPC’s wares. I’m sorry for being misleading on this point.

So, if an object is valued at 200 gold outside (something arms lore might return, but I’d have to check on that to be sure), then it would yield 100 gold multiplied by the requested amount (ie: if chainmail were valued at 200 gold and you made 20 of them, (200*.5)*20=2000 gold…)

Ore type and exceptional quality properties are not considered when turning in completed small orders. They are only considered with large orders. Ore types and exceptional quality items are not requested for blacksmiths in training under 70 blacksmithy skill.

Of course, this is subject to change if issues arise in the QA process.

Item Identification tells you the value… You know, the forgotten skill?

ARG! I don’t use the lore skills on my characters. If something needs repair, I just click repair and target it (tells you if it doesn’t need it, anyway). Item ID I just use to look for the magical words… “power, force, vanquishing” (and not the skill…ID wands). I’ve become jaded in that aspect. :(

Thanks for the correction… (don’t get me started on ID wands… ugh…)
[170901] Many suggestions have been put forth for different ore colors. Magical item enhancements, differing armor properties by hue, more hues, etc… It’s something that we’re not looking into, right now.

We have a huge amount of bug fixes and changes in testing. We’re focusing our resources on those issues, currently. Two of the initiatives are crafting skill changes and bulk orders. The first initiative (crafting skill changes) allows us to extend crafting skills more easily in the future. We have a bit more time to “wait and see” before we make any more modifications of the magnitude you have suggested.
Rewards
[150102] Evocare –
The 1 in 18 million chance refers to the combined chance of 1 character getting a large, exceptional, valorite, 20 piece (120 total) platemail order and all the corresponding small orders that are needed to fulfill it.

That being said, you have to remember that there are thousands of smiths banging away at the system several times per day on many shards, and that players have a tendency to trade very effectively (as evidenced by websites such as deedfinder, tradespot, bulk deed bazaar, etc). So, it’s not unreasonable to believe that when somebody gets the large order, they’ll eventually be able to trade/buy the corresponding small orders.

However, I’ll freely admit that we need more quality medium and low(er) end rewards so you can get some cool stuff other then just mining gloves or dull copper hammers for turning in pretty good deeds. In addition, these rewards probably have to expire in one way or another, so they don’t just pile up in huge quantities over time. We also probably need to do something about the abundance of weapons deeds… something we also expect to address in an upcoming publish (I won’t say which publish).

Fortunately, we’re getting a lot of really good information as to just how rare a truly “rare” item needs to be in order to ensure they don’t ever become commonplace. We definitely expect to use this information to develop and refine systems that keep Ultima Online fun and fresh. =]
[160102] Vex –
I think some clarification is in order. The 18,000,000 number is more like how many deeds will be distributed on average between the awarding of Valorite hammers. Now, the system is set up to be random, meaning there is no deed distribution schedule.

We got data on the number of GM smiths on various shards. Then, we assumed that there would be twice as many GM smiths soon, and they would all get deeds as often as possible, and they would all band together and trade with perfect efficiency. After making all these extreme assumptions – after all, players always seem find ways to powergame any system ;) – we tuned the odds.

We purposefully set the odds extremely low in order to carefully avoid breaking the game. It is better to start at a very low payout rate and increase it if needed. The alternative – starting high and “nerfing” it later – is much less palatable to both the design team and the players.

Right now, we have no plans to tune the odds upwards. Not enough time has passed for us to begin seriously evaluating whether or not the high-end reward payouts should be increased. However, we are doing extensive logging on all shards. We know exactly who has been given what deeds, and who has turned in deeds for which rewards. So far, we have avoided flooding the game with uberweapons.

However, we are interested in feedback on this subject. This thread seems to be a good place for that. :)
[051201] Sannio –
I have a miner who is not GM yet, about 98.x in mining skill. However, his modified skill in mining is 100.0 due to the use of mining gloves. I found that I can read the stone mining and sand mining books, is this a bug? Does this mean I can mine stones and sand by now? No need to have unmodified skill = 100.00?
The fact that the mining gloves can boost your mining skill to the level needed to use those stone mining & sand mining books isn’t a bug. Feel free to take full advantage of the perks of wearing your mining gloves. :]
[161101] So far, only 4 middle-range rewards have been given out on LS. No high-end rewards have been given out yet. The highest runic hammer is Bronze (only one so far). This means the highest craftable weapon is Might, at the moment.

The fame levels are as designed. Although, they look to be a bit high. We already had reduced the fame reward from feedback on Test Center. So far, we have not decided to reduce them, though.
[091001] The impact is negligible. We’re talking maybe 4–8 players to get one hammer (capable of making vanquishing items) in a year (per shard). That’s only an influx of around 400 vanquishing weapons over the course of a year. There are more vanquishing weapons made in a single week through loot.

Only a few players that are very diligent will be able to. If it turns out to be too many, we’ll tone it down further. We expect a small handful of players will get the highest reward.

Craftable weapons are slightly better than regular vanquishing weapons, if they’re made with exceptional quality.

The usefulness of the weapons is up to whoever gets them. Many new players would be ecstatic to have ruin weapons.
[021001] Evocare –
Well, the really cool rewards only come from doing the very rare, very hard-to-pull-off large orders.

Unless ancient smithing hammers that greatly increase your skill (even over 100.0), the ability to make colored weapons (valorite katana, anyone?), and other such goodies don’t interest you… ;]

Of course, such rewards are oh so very difficult to obtain… will you be one of the few blacksmiths weilding that telltale valorite smithing hammer? :P
[250901] We’ll be watching to see how long it takes folks to get the rewards. You’ll be quite the stylish blacksmith with the top rewards. :)
[170901] The functionality of the items or the color of the items are unique. Some of the rewards are for showing off your skill to other players. Some of the rewards are even more impressive. The top end rewards should be sufficient (aside from the massive amount of fame you can get) as a reward for the huge amount of effort required to fill the order (including a large monetary reward).
Complaints
[180901] The system seems too focused on single players.
That’s intended for low skill blacksmiths that are exploring the game. Although, it should not be an issue for high skill blacksmiths.

The deeds can be completed by non-blacksmiths.
Blacksmiths are required to collect the deeds. The rewards for high-end deeds are usable by blacksmiths only.

Some folks want the deeds to be non-transferrable/non-completable by original owner of the deed.
This breaks the ability to swap deeds. The chances of getting all 7 deeds required for a large bulk deed for platemail of the same type is very low (would take a good while) and almost requires transferring of deeds between blacksmiths.

Ingot prices will soar.
This is player regulated and not regulated by a game mechanic. Although, you can mine ingots without purchasing them. :)

People will camp vendors for ingots.
We have a fix for this in testing. Also, iron ingot bulk deeds would yield significantly lower rewards than colored ore deeds.

People will camp shopkeepers for deeds and run the shopkeepers out of gold.
The deeds will be available from both armourers and blacksmiths. Most towns have at least two shopkeepers of one or the other type (or more). This will alleviate camping. Also, deeds are not given out constantly. They are random and a delay occurs after receiving an order.
[180901] Heres a possible scenario for small bulk order deeds for players with less than 70 smithing skill (read as zero skill non-smiths)

Player has 2 accounts w/10 characters on one shard. Player has 1 gm smith among those 10 characters, and begins making gm plate armor, saving all non-gm plate gorgets to sell to npc’s. (Or whatever method they choose to generate items to sell)Player takes character 1… non-gm… goes to npc w/backpack full of items and begins to sell until the deed is recieved. Once recieved, recalls back to home base and stores deed and items.. logs out that character and logs in character number 2. Loads up character 2 and heads out to NPC to sell some more. Wash… rinse… repeat.

Even if a limit of 1 per day per character is implemented, that would still be 9 smalls and the possibility of an additional small or large bulk deed. Per day, for just 2 accounts belonging to a single player.

So even in a non-camping scenario there is still camping of a sort as a possibility.

But those would not be valuable deeds. You would be getting low-end deeds for the common rewards and not the higher-end rewards.

Also, the high-end rewards are usable only by blacksmiths.
[180901] You can use exceptional items to fill normal item deeds. In fact, if the deed doesn’t request a specific ore, any ore type will do.

The system for offering the order deeds is designed for players that are new to the game. Those players would not know that you could sell items to a shopkeeper and get a deed. It would be a surprise to them (they probably do not read boards as often as many experienced players do). So, you could increase your chances of getting a deed by selling multiple items. Although, once you receive the offer, the system will not offer you a deed for a while.

Bulk order deeds do not count as a sale. You are completing a request by the shopkeeper, not a sale transaction.

As you might imagine, I have barely enough time to make enough items to keep my vendors stocked on a semi-regular basis let alone make extra items to sell to NPC’s. Does this mean that I am to be completely left out?
Uhm, you chose that playstyle. The deed system does not discriminate. It is the same system for any blacksmith.

As for the initial rush, this system is accessible from both armourers and blacksmith shopkeepers. Most towns have multiple armourers and blacksmiths to purchase from. There will always be a rush when something new is implemented in the game for such a large amount of folks. The system should be sufficiently spread out amoungst multiple locations to alleviate the problem.
[180901] The orders do not check the source of the requested item. All it requires is that the item is in your backpack.

If you wanted to, you could partially complete the order and have someone else finish it.

You can combine monster loot, NPC purchased items, and crafted items with the order (provided the properties requested match).

So, you could go running around buying items off other people’s vendors to complete your deeds. :)

(Comment that allowing NPC-bought and monster-looted items doesn’t really support crafters)
Sorry, the statement I made was misleading… I didn’t mean for it to be taken in that context. It’s hard for you to judge the system without seeing it yet, but we’d like to keep some of it in the dark so you’ll have fun exploring it.

“I personally feel that one should be required to have the crafting skill associated with the deed before one is allowed to obtain or use it.”

The deeds are awarded only to crafters, depending on their skill. They are not awarded to anyone without skill for the particular type of deed. So, to get a large bulk deed, you need high skill in blacksmithy.

The low-end deeds can be filled by common non-crafted items, the high-end deeds cannot. The high-end deeds give better rewards.

The technical reason behind allowing monster loot and NPC purchased items be used for the low-end (small bulk orders) deeds is that they are undistinguishable (codewise) from non-exceptional crafted items. If we were to put in a crafter’s mark on all crafted items (not a small change in itself), then all legacy crafted items would not have the mark. Items would be out of synch in the game (remember pre-patch weapons?). This is something we are not implementing.

The issue described is small for those who will want high-end deeds to get the highest rewards they can.
When?
[180901] The system is open-ended for expansion to other skills. We have not determined which skill or skills will be expanded to. We’ve talked briefly about when we can extend it, but nothing has been determined yet.
[170901] I have no idea. I know it’s available internally now, but I also know that the new crafting system, tons of bug fixes (truckloads), faction changes, and many other changes are in the same basket (could swap out changes, publish some changes earlier or later…no idea).

The size of the changes are so large that it is mind boggling for me even to think about it. :) The thing is, most of the testing would not be viewable as it would require you to get a client patch. So, we’re testing these items internally. There isn’t a scheduled date for all these changes to be viewable externally, yet.

An example… if you were to get on one of the QA test shards, you wouldn’t be able to see what items you were selecting to craft. The gumps don’t display properly without a patch.
[170901] Sannio –
Oh… It’s in General Testing. I thought it might be something they were actually going to do. :)
Well, being that it’s in General Testing means that it’s passed through the “I’ve got an idea” and “possibly be in the game” stages to “probably be in the game” stage. We can’t guarantee anything that’s not yet made it’s way all the way through into the game, but things are looking good on bulk orders making it all the way through.

Players have been asking for more attention toward methods of crafting and the results/rewards for that crafting. I think that players of various experience levels will like the bulk orders system – those players with little experience in smithing will be able to train in a more diverse fashion, and more experience smiths will be rewarded for their highly-skilled efforts.

(The other things you mentioned are being discussed and/or being worked on.)
Siege
[180901] They are not available on Seige… Although, I’ll bring this up and see if it needs to be modified. We’d remove the gold reward out of the system for Seige, if it were to go on there. I’ll have an updated response on this in a bit.


Correction, there is an upcoming fix for Siege that will allow the Bulk Order Deeds to work as currently designed. The gold reward is staying in. The current ruleset for shopkeepers is being changed. If the fix does not occur, we’ll look into a solution for the bulk order system.


The fix hasn’t been announced yet. Although, Adrick explained to me why the bulk orders will work. It’s something QA must pass first before we elaborate on it. If it doesn’t pass QA, then it might not be published. So, it’s not a sure thing yet. It’s out of the developer’s hands now, though (meaning, it’s developed, just not tested…).
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